GW's form of PKs are here! - Guild Wars Forums

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I guess it was inevitable but Guild Wars PK's are here!
What I mean is the players who get thier enjoyment picking on the weak! Offer them a fight vs their peers and they are not interested. A chance to beat on noobs all day and they line up!
What am I on about? - The 1-10 and 1-15 arena!

Now I can expect us all to take some characters into the arena slightly twinked up. But this last weekend I have seen it all!
Plate mail!! Lightsabre axes! Characters with so many major runes on them that it was a joke.

I have to ask these people - Why? Your not learning any tactics. It will not help you at level 20. Your just griefing all the real new players who are trying PvP for the first time.

I have some friends who have just started playing now and they have already given up going into the lev 1-10 arena. And it's not because they are bad players! It's because unless they are twinked up silly then they just don't stand a chance!

What would be good is to restrict equipment on some of these low arenas so that new players can enjoy the PvP in this game.

Us vets have plenty of arenas to test our skill. Picking on the weak with uber equipped characters is something I think we can all do without seeing!

---------Edit
Please, before you reply with a rant or troll about - ha! I bet you got owned and are crying about it! - Stop!
This is a serious question about the future of new players and how WE want there experience into PvP to grow. It is in all our interests to keep new blood coming into the game and have them enjoy the unique PvP of GW.
Please debate and think about issues. Not troll or rant.
Thank you

Cerby · May 23, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Meh, lets them feel the asskicking now, because they'll be feeling it later in the Tomb anyways.

Jana · May 23, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerby

Meh, lets them feel the asskicking now, because they'll be feeling it later in the Tomb anyways.

Now or later... pick your poison (it does NOT get any easier).

Jana

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerby

Meh, lets them feel the asskicking now, because they'll be feeling it later in the Tomb anyways.

Well thats the point isn't it? In the Tomb your all lev 20 and equal. It comes down to skill then. Personal and Team based skills.
Ok equipment and Elite skills will make some difference but the whole reason you can start a pure PvP character is so that you have a good chance in the fights.

But what chance does a new lev 1-10 player have these days in the newbie arena?
They have no PLATE armour (How the hell he got that into the arena I don't know). They have no Dragon swords or Energy Axes. No Major or Superior runes of Vigor and weapon upgrades.

People who twink up that much in those arenas are going there for no other reason that to BULLY people and pick on the weak. If you want to test out some skill combos etc then leave all that rubbish behind. Or just go in and win 5-0 and leave. But some people are there for hours!!!

Jana · May 23, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Hey, lighten up... it's not like it counts for anything, and believe it or not... you REALLY can't do much in terms of skills and such from lvls 1-10, no matter what you want to believe.

By the way, at THAT level, and if you are new... odds are ANYONE with a tiny bit experience is going to have an advantage over you anyway, as it takes time... and FAR more than 10 levels, to learn what you are doing. This is something you should understand.

Also, MOST items in the game are NOT uber. No matter what you think, they aren't. Yes skills are raised, but only by a few points, so this is NOT an overwhelming advantage.

Somehow, you have convinced yourself that a new player, 2 or 3 days in SHOULD be able to beat an experienced person, even if they are of equal levels. Hate to break this to you, but this game is ALL about skill. PERIOD.

And besides, even weapons do not make a difference... for example, the max hammer damage is 35. Sure they may not have a Gold hammer with 35 max damage, but you can pick one up with that dam really cheap with no mods and BUY a few cheap mods I see people selling and make it decent, and certainly not enough to say that one is FAR overpowered.

Chill.

Jana

Morat · May 23, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Jumping into a low level arena with top grade kit from second (first?) accs or guildmates is just sad.

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morat

Jumping into a low level arena with top grade kit from second (first?) accs or guildmates is just sad.

Thank you.
I may not have enough posts on this forum to have councillor next to my name but having played since early beta, I know enough about the PvP in this game to make a valid comment.

Equipment DOES make a huge difference.
Anyone in later game armour can walk around vs the early game and take almost no damage. Even from PLAYERS.
Yes you can defeat them. I am not disputing this. But it takes some very experienced players with the right skills to take down these twinked players.

My argument is: What on earth is the newbie arena for?

1) A killing ground for experienced players to twink up and slay newbies?
2) A chance to test a class combo you have not played before?
3) An opportinity for new players to learn a little about PvP?
4) A chance for experienced players to pass on some PvP tactics to new players?
5) A way to spend the 10 mins you have online before you need to go out?

One of these options is a very sad reason. Can you guess which?

DismalClown · May 23, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Even though I just got finished playing in the 1-10 arena with a dragon sword ??? (my armor was the ascalon level 15 cheap stuff) I have to say I agree with you. They should have level restrictions on equipment at least for pvp.

I was in a 4 warrior group at one point and 3 of us had dragon swords. We won the first game and someone on the team said "we are gods". Kind of sad.

Celes Tial · May 23, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

People with lots of major and superior runes in the level 1-10 arena? I fail to believe that. Because well... the -50 and -75 health penalties would really hurt a low level player's health pool too much. If they use so many 'big' runes, you should be able to kill them easily with their 100 or less health... right?

What I would like to see are level limits for grouping in the earlier missions. A mission really isnt fun anymore when a level 15 or 20 'rushes' the lowbies through. It turns the game into a Diablo 2 ripoff.

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celes Tial

People with lots of major and superior runes in the level 1-10 arena? I fail to believe that. Because well... the -50 and -75 health penalties would really hurt a low level player's health pool too much. If they use so many 'big' runes, you should be able to kill them easily with their 100 or less health... right?

What I would like to see are level limits for grouping in the earlier missions. A mission really isnt fun anymore when a level 15 or 20 'rushes' the lowbies through. It turns the game into a Diablo 2 ripoff.

They put Superior Vigor Rune on for the life gain and worst I have seen is Superior Absorption and armour FAR above their level.
Your second comment is also how you get this good armour. If you rush low level players through missions with a high level then they only get the 1000xp mission complete and no other xp. So it is easy to get them into the later parts of the game with a very low level.
I have two accounts at home, one for the wife and one for me. It would be nothing for me to log in with a newb char on her account and team up with my lev 20's. Then just leave her char standing at the start and I run through missions with my char. I can get her to Lion's arch and beyond in 1 evenings play.
I have seen a lev 5 in Lions Arch and have to ask myself. Why? If all they are doing is running through as far as they can to get twinked up so they can go back and 'OWN' the newbie arenas then there is something wrong! (With the player and the game).
If some kind of equipment block was put on the low level arenas then people who are playing the game as intended are fine. Those loosers who are unable to compete with the 'big-boys' and just want to bully the newbs will have to find something else to do!

Leventh · May 23, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

i like how you slipped in the "Can Something be done?" in the title.. but this really belongs in the Bitch About Being Pwned thread.. oh damn, there is no such thing.

ok items.. no level 10/15 can have a 'godly item' unless they invest a mass amound into their say swordsmanship skill.. this would take away from their spell/skill output.

runes, yes they help a bit but once again at such a low level they are rather useless.

rushing, i dont see how putting a level limit would slow anyone down, as you can get around most of the map without doing a single mission.

summary: stop complaining, go level/item hunt a bit and jump back into pvp

Nosajio · May 23, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Ah. Its always nice to see the problems of games of old bubbling up into the new...

I've honestly have yet to experience any of this. A lot of the times when I want to cry imbalance, common sense kicks in and I begin to see the millions of mistakes that make my Player versus Player teams implode. I think the most common is having that one Rambo player get impatient and march off to his demise, all by his lonesome. And they DROP HIM FAST. No matter the equipment, or level. From there, it's just a huge chink in the armor.

But there is reason to be pissy about players who twink up to bash the inexperienced. It's just plain stupid. And if you do it, I believe the complaints are deserved. On the other hand (hence the title), the game itself kinda promotes the muling and twinking. Its all built in. Can we say "Storage system?" With the fact that muling is a built in option, and the gaming culture in-general, you'll see "noob bashing" die just as soon as my billions of dollars roll in from my toilet seat warmer patent. I don't blame ya for complaining though. Its downright dumb of players.

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55

hehe, I like the way people assume lots of things on these threads.
Like me being owned and complaining. lol!
Infact it was me that killed the guy in platemail and his team and got them out of their 'owning' of the arena.
I am not here to winge or rant about people twinking up because they are spoiling my fun!

I am asking a question. Can and Should something be done about it?

2 months from now you buy the game and play GW. You have never played it before, so what do you get?

1) A nice introduction area that teached you about game mechanics etc.
2) A little PvP battle that is reasonably balanced.
3) Then you get into the bigger world and start to get the hang of it.
4) At game release we all then had a newbie arena that allowed to us see that PvP in GW is fun and understand that near the end game your going to want to PvP a lot more.

But what will you get in 2 months? A gank fest of twinked players that will put new players off PvP altogether.

Since PvP is a major part of this game, don't you think that is a little daft?

As a guild leader and a keen PvP player myself, I want to see new blood enter this game and I want them to enjoy PvP. As they progress then I can get them onto team speak and we can start building them up in team tactics.

Having them mashed by twinked up players in the newbie arena is going to do nothing positive for that new player.

People are happy to jump on the troll and ranting replies of - 'Ha! Ha! Let them get owned!' or 'Maybe you got owned - stop crying!' but are these replies of any help? Do they bring forward a valid argument for twinking? Do any of you see a reason why the newbie arena should not have equipment restrictions?

I myself can see some issues of equipment restrictions and how would it be done. But until someone starts to reply with a sensible debate then I am here waiting.

thaumaturge · May 23, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

It's what you have to deal with when the game is a weird blend between "level is better" and "skill is better". Btw I must be a noob, how does one character under level 10 obtain a good plate mail when each armor is crafted for one user, is there an uncrafter somewhere?

Tormunda · May 23, 2005, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaumaturge

It's what you have to deal with when the game is a weird blend between "level is better" and "skill is better". Btw I must be a noob, how does one character under level 10 obtain a good plate mail when each armor is crafted for one user, is there an uncrafter somewhere?

No there is no uncrafter. I did explain one of the ways to do this above but there may well be others, I don't think on it that much as I am not interested in getting my lev 4 char into Al80 armour.

To try and spark some debate here... Question:
We need to still let in players who legit find a rare item! - Do you think it would be a sequantial ID ref on a random table that can be blocked. i.e: No item with ref ID 2000+ can be found legit for arena 1-10?
Would the player be able to enter and just not equip the item?
What do you think a good system response would be? (Current equipped item is beyond the requirements for this arena?) So the player could swap down??

Myodato · May 23, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Has anyone bothered to ask themselves why there is a 1-10 Arena ? Surely the point is to allow competitive and enjoyable PvP from the early stages of the game, rather than having to grind out another maxed-out uber-template killer. If this concept can be broken by people over-equipping there low-level alts, then what is the point of having low level arenas at all ?

To be honest, I don't think that it is a huge problem (yet), as having your team full of warriors and monks does a lot more for your chances than any amount of leet equipment, but I do think the idea of an equipment-cap is worth considering. If this is even a slight problem now, then it will only be a greater one in the future when more people have access to vast quantities of great farmed loot through their main characters.

Jana · May 23, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Wait. HOW does one get armor for a low level "twink" if armor is crafted specifically for each person again? I know you dodged the question, so can you explain?

I do see your point though, in terms of what it is used for. - shields and weapons specifically. Runes maybe as well, but those health hits at low levels would give you like VERY low health.

I would GUESS the only way to stop this twinking is to do what WOW did and make weapons and shields ALSO customized for ONE person only on use or equip. This would work and I would even be for this.

What I am wondering is... IS this an oversight by the DEVs, or did they have something else in mind when they designed it this way?

Jana

Leventh · May 23, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

eaw.. the "W" word.

They are not dumb enough to put in the soulbound system.. as that would screw over every wep in the game.

I fail to see any problem with the current lowbie pvp area. there will always be people who have invested time, cash, and a little thinking to make their char. better then the rest, these people should be reward with victory rather then outcasted.

also might I point out that you gain XP in the pit.. so a twinked char is only good for so many rounds before they are removed. so if one were to go though all that trouble to grind to droknar's (and avoiding xp), get their 6k set, and come back to 'pwn' some noobs. were talking about 25+ (if hardcored and done right) hours to twink their armor, it would cost 50kish to twink their runes.. all for say 4-5 hours of pwning.

Does not add up.

Arvydas · May 23, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jana

Wait. HOW does one get armor for a low level "twink" if armor is crafted specifically for each person again? I know you dodged the question, so can you explain?

As mentioned b4, one of the way is to run a low lvl through high lvl areas, then let them loot, and give them gold and materials to craft their own armor.

But I do see that in order to wear such a high lvl armor, the char must have sacrificed other attributes, so they're not truly invincible. Of course, since noobs are still learning the game, they'd have a hard time handling such chars.

I don't like seeing players picking on noobs, so I'd really like to see something to be done.

Paine · May 23, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

My two cents:

They're not the only ones. This type of laming exists in many games.
Why ???

* Perhaps they want to ruin for others ?
* Perhaps they're doing it for fun ?
* Perhaps they're practising ?
* Perhaps they get that feeling to be "cool" ?
* Perhaps they suck at high LvL duels ?

Another thing though;
Twice a cheater, always a cheater.

May 23, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11	#1
Tormunda Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	GW's form of PKs are here! - Can Something be done? I guess it was inevitable but Guild Wars PK's are here! What I mean is the players who get thier enjoyment picking on the weak! Offer them a fight vs their peers and they are not interested. A chance to beat on noobs all day and they line up! What am I on about? - The 1-10 and 1-15 arena! Now I can expect us all to take some characters into the arena slightly twinked up. But this last weekend I have seen it all! Plate mail!! Lightsabre axes! Characters with so many major runes on them that it was a joke. I have to ask these people - Why? Your not learning any tactics. It will not help you at level 20. Your just griefing all the real new players who are trying PvP for the first time. I have some friends who have just started playing now and they have already given up going into the lev 1-10 arena. And it's not because they are bad players! It's because unless they are twinked up silly then they just don't stand a chance! What would be good is to restrict equipment on some of these low arenas so that new players can enjoy the PvP in this game. Us vets have plenty of arenas to test our skill. Picking on the weak with uber equipped characters is something I think we can all do without seeing! ---------Edit Please, before you reply with a rant or troll about - ha! I bet you got owned and are crying about it! - Stop! This is a serious question about the future of new players and how WE want there experience into PvP to grow. It is in all our interests to keep new blood coming into the game and have them enjoy the unique PvP of GW. Please debate and think about issues. Not troll or rant. Thank you Last edited by Tormunda; May 23, 2005 at 12:03 PM // 12:03..

May 23, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47	#9
Celes Tial Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Pirates of BBQ Bay Profession: Mo/Me	People with lots of major and superior runes in the level 1-10 arena? I fail to believe that. Because well... the -50 and -75 health penalties would really hurt a low level player's health pool too much. If they use so many 'big' runes, you should be able to kill them easily with their 100 or less health... right? What I would like to see are level limits for grouping in the earlier missions. A mission really isnt fun anymore when a level 15 or 20 'rushes' the lowbies through. It turns the game into a Diablo 2 ripoff. Last edited by Celes Tial; May 23, 2005 at 10:49 AM // 10:49..

May 23, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42	#12
Nosajio Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Profession: W/N	It's Really a Catch 22 Ah. Its always nice to see the problems of games of old bubbling up into the new... I've honestly have yet to experience any of this. A lot of the times when I want to cry imbalance, common sense kicks in and I begin to see the millions of mistakes that make my Player versus Player teams implode. I think the most common is having that one Rambo player get impatient and march off to his demise, all by his lonesome. And they DROP HIM FAST. No matter the equipment, or level. From there, it's just a huge chink in the armor. But there is reason to be pissy about players who twink up to bash the inexperienced. It's just plain stupid. And if you do it, I believe the complaints are deserved. On the other hand (hence the title), the game itself kinda promotes the muling and twinking. Its all built in. Can we say "Storage system?" With the fact that muling is a built in option, and the gaming culture in-general, you'll see "noob bashing" die just as soon as my billions of dollars roll in from my toilet seat warmer patent. I don't blame ya for complaining though. Its downright dumb of players.

May 23, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17	#17
Jana Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Knights of the Silver Flame Profession: Mo/Me	Wait. HOW does one get armor for a low level "twink" if armor is crafted specifically for each person again? I know you dodged the question, so can you explain? I do see your point though, in terms of what it is used for. - shields and weapons specifically. Runes maybe as well, but those health hits at low levels would give you like VERY low health. I would GUESS the only way to stop this twinking is to do what WOW did and make weapons and shields ALSO customized for ONE person only on use or equip. This would work and I would even be for this. What I am wondering is... IS this an oversight by the DEVs, or did they have something else in mind when they designed it this way? Jana Last edited by Jana; May 23, 2005 at 03:20 PM // 15:20..

May 23, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54	#2
Cerby Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	Meh, lets them feel the asskicking now, because they'll be feeling it later in the Tomb anyways.

May 23, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20	#5
Jana Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Knights of the Silver Flame Profession: Mo/Me	Hey, lighten up... it's not like it counts for anything, and believe it or not... you REALLY can't do much in terms of skills and such from lvls 1-10, no matter what you want to believe. By the way, at THAT level, and if you are new... odds are ANYONE with a tiny bit experience is going to have an advantage over you anyway, as it takes time... and FAR more than 10 levels, to learn what you are doing. This is something you should understand. Also, MOST items in the game are NOT uber. No matter what you think, they aren't. Yes skills are raised, but only by a few points, so this is NOT an overwhelming advantage. Somehow, you have convinced yourself that a new player, 2 or 3 days in SHOULD be able to beat an experienced person, even if they are of equal levels. Hate to break this to you, but this game is ALL about skill. PERIOD. And besides, even weapons do not make a difference... for example, the max hammer damage is 35. Sure they may not have a Gold hammer with 35 max damage, but you can pick one up with that dam really cheap with no mods and BUY a few cheap mods I see people selling and make it decent, and certainly not enough to say that one is FAR overpowered. Chill. Jana

May 23, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38	#6
Morat Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Octavian Vanguard Profession: R/E	Jumping into a low level arena with top grade kit from second (first?) accs or guildmates is just sad.

May 23, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02	#8
DismalClown Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	Even though I just got finished playing in the 1-10 arena with a dragon sword ??? (my armor was the ascalon level 15 cheap stuff) I have to say I agree with you. They should have level restrictions on equipment at least for pvp. I was in a 4 warrior group at one point and 3 of us had dragon swords. We won the first game and someone on the team said "we are gods". Kind of sad.

May 23, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15	#11
Leventh Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: michigan Guild: Unforgiven Clan [UF] Profession: R/Me	i like how you slipped in the "Can Something be done?" in the title.. but this really belongs in the Bitch About Being Pwned thread.. oh damn, there is no such thing. ok items.. no level 10/15 can have a 'godly item' unless they invest a mass amound into their say swordsmanship skill.. this would take away from their spell/skill output. runes, yes they help a bit but once again at such a low level they are rather useless. rushing, i dont see how putting a level limit would slow anyone down, as you can get around most of the map without doing a single mission. summary: stop complaining, go level/item hunt a bit and jump back into pvp

May 23, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55	#13
Tormunda Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	hehe, I like the way people assume lots of things on these threads. Like me being owned and complaining. lol! Infact it was me that killed the guy in platemail and his team and got them out of their 'owning' of the arena. I am not here to winge or rant about people twinking up because they are spoiling my fun! I am asking a question. Can and Should something be done about it? 2 months from now you buy the game and play GW. You have never played it before, so what do you get? 1) A nice introduction area that teached you about game mechanics etc. 2) A little PvP battle that is reasonably balanced. 3) Then you get into the bigger world and start to get the hang of it. 4) At game release we all then had a newbie arena that allowed to us see that PvP in GW is fun and understand that near the end game your going to want to PvP a lot more. But what will you get in 2 months? A gank fest of twinked players that will put new players off PvP altogether. Since PvP is a major part of this game, don't you think that is a little daft? As a guild leader and a keen PvP player myself, I want to see new blood enter this game and I want them to enjoy PvP. As they progress then I can get them onto team speak and we can start building them up in team tactics. Having them mashed by twinked up players in the newbie arena is going to do nothing positive for that new player. People are happy to jump on the troll and ranting replies of - 'Ha! Ha! Let them get owned!' or 'Maybe you got owned - stop crying!' but are these replies of any help? Do they bring forward a valid argument for twinking? Do any of you see a reason why the newbie arena should not have equipment restrictions? I myself can see some issues of equipment restrictions and how would it be done. But until someone starts to reply with a sensible debate then I am here waiting.

May 23, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14	#14
thaumaturge Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	It's what you have to deal with when the game is a weird blend between "level is better" and "skill is better". Btw I must be a noob, how does one character under level 10 obtain a good plate mail when each armor is crafted for one user, is there an uncrafter somewhere?

May 23, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39	#16
Myodato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Guild: WOR Profession: Mo/	Has anyone bothered to ask themselves why there is a 1-10 Arena ? Surely the point is to allow competitive and enjoyable PvP from the early stages of the game, rather than having to grind out another maxed-out uber-template killer. If this concept can be broken by people over-equipping there low-level alts, then what is the point of having low level arenas at all ? To be honest, I don't think that it is a huge problem (yet), as having your team full of warriors and monks does a lot more for your chances than any amount of leet equipment, but I do think the idea of an equipment-cap is worth considering. If this is even a slight problem now, then it will only be a greater one in the future when more people have access to vast quantities of great farmed loot through their main characters.

May 23, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06	#18
Leventh Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: michigan Guild: Unforgiven Clan [UF] Profession: R/Me	eaw.. the "W" word. They are not dumb enough to put in the soulbound system.. as that would screw over every wep in the game. I fail to see any problem with the current lowbie pvp area. there will always be people who have invested time, cash, and a little thinking to make their char. better then the rest, these people should be reward with victory rather then outcasted. also might I point out that you gain XP in the pit.. so a twinked char is only good for so many rounds before they are removed. so if one were to go though all that trouble to grind to droknar's (and avoiding xp), get their 6k set, and come back to 'pwn' some noobs. were talking about 25+ (if hardcored and done right) hours to twink their armor, it would cost 50kish to twink their runes.. all for say 4-5 hours of pwning. Does not add up.

May 23, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22	#20
Paine Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Clan Plus [Plus]	My two cents: They're not the only ones. This type of laming exists in many games. Why ??? * Perhaps they want to ruin for others ? * Perhaps they're doing it for fun ? * Perhaps they're practising ? * Perhaps they get that feeling to be "cool" ? * Perhaps they suck at high LvL duels ? Another thing though; Twice a cheater, always a cheater.